devonhammer 11:42 Thu May 14
term time holiday fines....
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(tin hat firmly on)
In a couple of weeks I will be taking Mrs Devon and the little Devons on holiday.
All very well....except I will be taking the little buggers out of school for 2 weeks.
I don`t like dong this (I really don`t) but being a paramedic in a chronically stretched NHS means annual leave is being severely rationed and allocated.
I have NO leave given to me during school holidays.
`Tough shit` I hear you say.
Well yes.....that is a perfectly valid opinion.
But frankly I need/deserve/require a break or I`m going to go postal and drive the ambulance into the next line of vulnerable old people I see waiting at a bus stop (and there is no shortage of them in south Devon).
I have explained all this (well...not the going postal bit ) in my holiday request to the schools.....but Plymouth Council have a reputation for fining everyone under the new guidelines.
So good people of WHO (is that an oxymoron) - what is your experience of this?
Any good legal advice?
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
stewie griffin
3:02 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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Education Act revision 2002
Cheers BLAIR
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Hermit Road
2:57 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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Fifth is absolutely right, this situation is entirely down to oversight from govt agencies.
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Befnal
2:52 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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I am so glad my sons have long since left school as I have no doubt that this is something that would have seen me locked up!
We always took our sons out of school for the final week of term when taking a 2 week holiday. They never missed exams or anything like that, although anyone who has ever been to school will tell you that fuck all happens in the last week before the summer holidays, by that time the teachers have had enough and are too busy thinking about a bit of sunshine and alcohol - not that I blame them.
I have no doubt that anyone telling me when I could & could not take my kids on holiday would have got a monumental fuck you! They could slap any fine on me they wanted, I would not have paid it and would sooner have gone to prison than be told what is best for my own children.
Only you as a parent can decide that, not a head teacher, not a local authority and certainly not a fucking government! I would go as far as to say our children learned more when we were away, learning foreign cultures, traditions and languages than they ever would have had they been stuck in a classroom for a week playing Mousetrap, Buckeroo & Ker-Plunk!
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Fifth Column
2:29 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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But it's the government's guidance to OFSTED that caused this.
If the government had not instructed OFSTED to judge schools based on all absence, instead of only unauthorised absence, then schools would not have an interest in fining people for non attendance when they would otherwise have authorised reasonable requests.
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overbyyer
2:20 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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Fifth
Yes, my mistake
But the point I was trying to make - to Surface in particular - is that people wave this legislation around assuming the Government sets actual limits.
It doesn't. There aren't any defined limits.
Targets are set further down the line and at their discretion.
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Fifth Column
2:13 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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overbyyer
You miss the point, the target for AUTHORISED absence is 0.
Schools are judged by OFSTED now merely on "absence" whether authorised or not. Schools cannot fine people for authorised absence but it is still a black mark against their name in an inspection if their authorised absences are above the norm.
They are more concerned about OFSTED grades than legislation... legislation is just used as a tool to get people keeping their kids in school in order to keep down absence and thus improve their OFSTED report.
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overbyyer
2:08 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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ok, Ive done the boring bit
Education Act revision 2002
Chapter 3 of Part 3: Admissions, Exclusions and Attendance
Provision is also made for the Secretary of State, or the NAW, to require governing bodies to set school-level targets for authorised as well as unauthorised absence.
They are required to set targets - a 'target' is ambiguous and implies an aim/goal/objective rather than a mandatory level.
Sounds to me like the target in most schools for unauthorised absence is nil.
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Fifth Column
1:59 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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overbyer
If the Act didn't say that then schools wouldn't be able to refer absent kids/parents to the Local Authority to be fined.
They can't just randomly make up the law.
It's the government not the school.
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overbyyer
1:52 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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Surface
You are pontificating using rhetoric as you always do.
The Act doesn't say children must go to school for xxx days a year or else the parents will be fined xxx pounds per occasion.
Local Authorities are using the Act as a big stick to set a precedent and entitlement to impose the right to fine parents.
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overbyyer
1:48 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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Surface, you didn't answer the question again.
Your parents never took you out of school for holidays during term time?
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
1:37 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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FatboyChelseaScum 12:52 Fri May 15
Yeah, I just posted up the act under which more than 10,000 parents per year are successfully convicted and fined (and occasionally imprisoned) and the actual regulations under which fines are levied and you dispute them as a figment of my imagination. Right-o!
penners28 12:47 Fri May 15
Heaven forbid
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FatboyChelseaScum
12:57 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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Bill of rights act:
Grants of Forfeitures:
That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegall and void.
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Westham67
12:55 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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I can see why its an incentive for parents who dont give a fuck about their kids. But people who's kids go every day and then want a couple weeks for holiday is different. Its not an unruly uncontrollable child
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FatboyChelseaScum
12:52 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero 12:28 Fri May 15
Wrong. Go read the act. You have just done a quick google search haven't you.
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penners28
12:47 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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you a teacher, surface?
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
12:42 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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overbyyer 12:33 Fri May 15
What the fuck have school trips got to do with it?
I've shown you the act under which 11,000 people were convicted and fined in 2013.
Have a plough through it.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/56/contents
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20070925095208/http://opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/uksi_20071867_en_1#ch4-l1g11
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Steve P
12:41 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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Mr Polite 10:40 Fri May 15
Going to Rhodes this year, Polite son. I'll report back after I've been.
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Fivetide
12:37 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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"you are now stored on a database held somewhere, probably insecurely and for the reference of god knows who and why"
To be fair that applies to everyone with a Nectar, Oyster, ClubCard etc... too.
Schools are obliged to give you the standard lecture because they are public servants and it is government policy, but unless they feel you are clearly taking the piss by taking two weeks out of term time just to spend less money than all the other parents have to, they don't normally press the fine.
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overbyyer
12:33 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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Surface, you didn't answer the question?
Your parents never took you out of school for holidays during term time?
And seeing as you threw the Education Act out there - care to point out where in the Act it refers to minimum attendance?
There is no reference - its a matter of interpretation and follow up through the courts to see who blinks first.
Where does it say in the Education Act that schools can fleece parents to subsidise school trips? Why am I asked to contribute to trips that are deemed to be core curriculum activities?
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Eggbert Nobacon
12:31 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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obverbyyer
for 940 quid saved I'll put up with that
It';s not right but it's the rules and everyone knows it just take the fine it's far far far less than the saving you'll make
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overbyyer
12:28 Fri May 15
Re: term time holiday fines....
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Eggbert Nobacon wrote...
Re: term time holiday fines....
just pay the fine
last year I took the junior egg away for a week 60 quid fine
saved over a grand compared to school holiday time
nothing to complain about there
Other than you've still paid £60 more than you should need to and you are now stored on a database held somewhere, probably insecurely and for the reference of god knows who and why.
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